The NYC Gathering
Our Community
Thursday, March 18, 2010
Workshop June 6,2010
Sun JUNE 6-The NYC Gathering, Patricia Mendell and Jean Benward, Conversations for Parents, UWS, Pmendell@aol.com, officejeanbenward@sbcglobal.net.
Life After Assisted Conception (ART) by Nancy Freeman-Carroll, PsyD
From: NYSPA Division of Psychoanalysis nyspa@nyspa.org
Subject: Psych-e-News
Psych - e - News
An Online Magazine from the
New York State Psychological Association
Division of Psychoanalysis
Issue #7 Winter 2010
In This Issue
Life After Assisted Conception (ART)
Carly told me that she felt she was the only mother on the playground with her secret. She had been hiding from the other mothers the fact that her own twin boys had not been conceived in "the normal way" because she feared rejection by "the motherhood club." Carly was so preoccupied by enormous self-consciousness and sadness that she hadn't noticed the other women in her neighborhood who had also needed infertility treatment. As she and I began talking about this, we came to see times in her past that she had felt different from others. Those earlier experiences had laid the ground for feeling so powerfully isolated now. The deeper understanding of this aspect of herself helped to reduce her self-consciousness, and her mood lightened. It gave her room to consider the way she, and not "the motherhood club," experiences being a mother.
The psychological impact of infertility can last a long time, even after the birth of a much-wanted child. The discovery and treatment of infertility can strain coping mechanisms, leaving even the most confident individual surprised by a profound sense of inadequacy and failure. When the treatment is successful and a child is born, the pain of trying to have a baby can now subside. But its toll--feeling powerless, alienated from peers, and battered by the losses--may linger. In the support groups I have run in my office for parents who created their families with Assisted Reproductive Technology (ART), men and women talk about unresolved feelings: the unfairness of medical conditions, the mystery of infertility, and regrets for waiting to have children.
Guilt, self-criticism, anger and despair related to infertility can be confusing and disruptive, particularly when projected onto others. Some parents worry, for example, that their child will be stigmatized and not accepted as a "real" part of their extended family or socially ostracized at school. I help them to see that their own unresolved feelings are the source of these worries. In order to move on, they must acknowledge and accept these feelings, and let go of the idea of conception as they thought it "should be."
Assisted conception represents a "final frontier" in social and scientific terms. Parents using it today are adventuring into unknown terrain and can feel lost and alone. Although thousands of children are born through ART every year, assisted conception often remains hidden.
Conception occurring outside of the womb is commonly referred to as In Vitro Fertilization (IVF). IVF may use the parents' own ovum and sperm to conceive, or one or both can come from a donor, with the possible addition of a surrogate mother to carry the embryo as it develops. Gamete (ovum or sperm) donation is a complicated and sensitive psychological experience for both men and women. For example, a woman must accept both the loss of a genetic connection to her child and the addition of an ovum from another woman. This mental adjustment strains her sense of self, identity, and physical integrity. Each of these areas is vulnerable to the influence of past traumas, and the legacy of the woman's own early family experiences. For men, the need for a sperm donor may be equated with inadequate masculinity and provoke a similar crisis. Some women feel the most discomfort as they search for a donor like themselves, reflecting a desire for sameness that may be impossible to satisfy; for others, worry about the donor's otherness increases during pregnancy or heightens post-partum depressive feelings.
ART families are both similar to and different from families created through adoption or sexual intercourse. I encourage couples to define family for themselves and use this idea to think about genetics, biology, and environment. While genes matter, their significance is mysterious and intricately connected to the context in which they merge. Truths arise that may seem contradictory: Donors contribute genetic material, but they are not parents to the child conceived with donor gametes. Healthy families created with ART learn to balance what they know about and what they can only guess.
When should I tell my children? What if I have very little to tell them about the donor? Will they ask me if I'm still their mother or father? What should I say? What will it mean to me if they want a relationship with the donor? Most parents seek help with these questions as their children reach preschool age. At this age, some parents also admit to pain about feeling different from their children--in appearance, talents, or personality. In general, men and women are relieved to come together to talk about the simple pleasures and complicated realities that shape their lives thanks to the possibility of assisted reproduction.
Talking about conception with a child is also a way of talking about sexuality, and parents may bring the same discomfort and inhibitions to both topics when discussing them with their child. One parent began by reading her four-year-old daughter a storybook about ovum donation and asked me in amazement, "Is everything okay if she doesn't ask a lot of questions?" This mother had expected her daughter to want to know more about her donor, but found instead that her little girl enjoyed the story and treated it like any other book she liked: She asked to hear it over and over again. The mother's anxiety betrayed both her wish and her fear about talking with her daughter. Both benefited when mother was able to consider in advance what she wanted her child to know, aware that the two of them will say more and more over time.
Recent studies (notably the work of Susan Golombok in England) show that families created with donor gametes are doing well; families who disclose information about the use of donors may be doing even slightly better, with more openness and less conflict reported between teenagers and parents. In my professional work with families created with ART, we find ways to speak about donor gametes and the meaning of family and genetics, so that the families created with assisted conception can accept the ambiguities involved, and thrive.
Nancy Freeman-Carroll, PsyD
Subject: Psych-e-News
Psych - e - News
An Online Magazine from the
New York State Psychological Association
Division of Psychoanalysis
Issue #7 Winter 2010
In This Issue
Life After Assisted Conception (ART)
Carly told me that she felt she was the only mother on the playground with her secret. She had been hiding from the other mothers the fact that her own twin boys had not been conceived in "the normal way" because she feared rejection by "the motherhood club." Carly was so preoccupied by enormous self-consciousness and sadness that she hadn't noticed the other women in her neighborhood who had also needed infertility treatment. As she and I began talking about this, we came to see times in her past that she had felt different from others. Those earlier experiences had laid the ground for feeling so powerfully isolated now. The deeper understanding of this aspect of herself helped to reduce her self-consciousness, and her mood lightened. It gave her room to consider the way she, and not "the motherhood club," experiences being a mother.
The psychological impact of infertility can last a long time, even after the birth of a much-wanted child. The discovery and treatment of infertility can strain coping mechanisms, leaving even the most confident individual surprised by a profound sense of inadequacy and failure. When the treatment is successful and a child is born, the pain of trying to have a baby can now subside. But its toll--feeling powerless, alienated from peers, and battered by the losses--may linger. In the support groups I have run in my office for parents who created their families with Assisted Reproductive Technology (ART), men and women talk about unresolved feelings: the unfairness of medical conditions, the mystery of infertility, and regrets for waiting to have children.
Guilt, self-criticism, anger and despair related to infertility can be confusing and disruptive, particularly when projected onto others. Some parents worry, for example, that their child will be stigmatized and not accepted as a "real" part of their extended family or socially ostracized at school. I help them to see that their own unresolved feelings are the source of these worries. In order to move on, they must acknowledge and accept these feelings, and let go of the idea of conception as they thought it "should be."
Assisted conception represents a "final frontier" in social and scientific terms. Parents using it today are adventuring into unknown terrain and can feel lost and alone. Although thousands of children are born through ART every year, assisted conception often remains hidden.
Conception occurring outside of the womb is commonly referred to as In Vitro Fertilization (IVF). IVF may use the parents' own ovum and sperm to conceive, or one or both can come from a donor, with the possible addition of a surrogate mother to carry the embryo as it develops. Gamete (ovum or sperm) donation is a complicated and sensitive psychological experience for both men and women. For example, a woman must accept both the loss of a genetic connection to her child and the addition of an ovum from another woman. This mental adjustment strains her sense of self, identity, and physical integrity. Each of these areas is vulnerable to the influence of past traumas, and the legacy of the woman's own early family experiences. For men, the need for a sperm donor may be equated with inadequate masculinity and provoke a similar crisis. Some women feel the most discomfort as they search for a donor like themselves, reflecting a desire for sameness that may be impossible to satisfy; for others, worry about the donor's otherness increases during pregnancy or heightens post-partum depressive feelings.
ART families are both similar to and different from families created through adoption or sexual intercourse. I encourage couples to define family for themselves and use this idea to think about genetics, biology, and environment. While genes matter, their significance is mysterious and intricately connected to the context in which they merge. Truths arise that may seem contradictory: Donors contribute genetic material, but they are not parents to the child conceived with donor gametes. Healthy families created with ART learn to balance what they know about and what they can only guess.
When should I tell my children? What if I have very little to tell them about the donor? Will they ask me if I'm still their mother or father? What should I say? What will it mean to me if they want a relationship with the donor? Most parents seek help with these questions as their children reach preschool age. At this age, some parents also admit to pain about feeling different from their children--in appearance, talents, or personality. In general, men and women are relieved to come together to talk about the simple pleasures and complicated realities that shape their lives thanks to the possibility of assisted reproduction.
Talking about conception with a child is also a way of talking about sexuality, and parents may bring the same discomfort and inhibitions to both topics when discussing them with their child. One parent began by reading her four-year-old daughter a storybook about ovum donation and asked me in amazement, "Is everything okay if she doesn't ask a lot of questions?" This mother had expected her daughter to want to know more about her donor, but found instead that her little girl enjoyed the story and treated it like any other book she liked: She asked to hear it over and over again. The mother's anxiety betrayed both her wish and her fear about talking with her daughter. Both benefited when mother was able to consider in advance what she wanted her child to know, aware that the two of them will say more and more over time.
Recent studies (notably the work of Susan Golombok in England) show that families created with donor gametes are doing well; families who disclose information about the use of donors may be doing even slightly better, with more openness and less conflict reported between teenagers and parents. In my professional work with families created with ART, we find ways to speak about donor gametes and the meaning of family and genetics, so that the families created with assisted conception can accept the ambiguities involved, and thrive.
Nancy Freeman-Carroll, PsyD
Wednesday, March 17, 2010
New Volunteers Available for Peer Support
Please let me know if you would like to talk to someone who has been through this. We now have 6 Peer Support Volunteers available to speak with you about Infertility, IVF, Donor Conception and Parenting and Gestational Surrogacy. Contact me off-line for more info at saxel95@aol.com.
Monday, March 15, 2010
Meeting Recap of Feb 7,2010-Q+A with DE-conceived teen
Thanks to Harriette Rovner Ferguson who facilitated our discussion.The parents attending were pg and parents via de,de/ds,de/gc,blended families via de,the mom has an adoptive sibling,one de parent on an adoption path after de.
The guest of honor has a twin brother and another set of sibling twins a few yrs younger,early teens,same donor. She expressed a natural,comfortable curiosity and gratitude for the donor and was open to answering anything thrown her way. She is interested in whether or not she has any other donor siblings besides her family.
All the attendees were impressed with her poise and maturity and almost everyone said they hope their own kids turn out half as wonderful as this young woman.
Thanks again to Harriette and our guest.We are hoping for a follow-up meeting this summer.
The guest of honor has a twin brother and another set of sibling twins a few yrs younger,early teens,same donor. She expressed a natural,comfortable curiosity and gratitude for the donor and was open to answering anything thrown her way. She is interested in whether or not she has any other donor siblings besides her family.
All the attendees were impressed with her poise and maturity and almost everyone said they hope their own kids turn out half as wonderful as this young woman.
Thanks again to Harriette and our guest.We are hoping for a follow-up meeting this summer.
Saturday, March 13, 2010
Sunday, June 6, 2010 Conversations for Parents
The NYC Gathering Presents
Families Created through Donor and Surrogacy
Professionally-led workshop created by PATRICIA MENDELL, LCSW & JEAN BENWARD, LCSW
A workshop for parents and parents-to-be who are seeking the tools to talk with
children about family origins.
Time 12:30-5:00 pm
Included: Handouts, Babysitting and Refreshments
Place Ansche Chesed Synagague
251 West 100th Street between Broadway and West End New York, NY 10025
(#1 Train to 103rd or #2 or #3 to 96th)
Sara Axel, Saxel95@aol.com
Patricia Mendell, LCSW pmendell@aol.com
Jean Benward, LCSW officejeanbenward@sbcglobal.net
Talking to “the others” in your life
Creating the Family Story
Panel: donor/surrogate parents, and donor children, questions, interaction with participants
THIS WORKSHOP IS FOR PARENTS AND PARENTS-TO-BE who are seeking the
tools to talk with children about family origins. Hear from professionals, parents and children who will bring to life the disclosure process andprovide guidance on how to create meaningful family stories.
Participants will learn how to:
• Develop comfortable, age-appropriate language for the disclosure process
• Identify the different ages and stages children go through in understanding their genetics and family origins
• Answer children’s questions with confidence
• Decide when and how to share with friends and family
$70 Individual / $140 Couple
Childcare Available,$30 one child/$50 two children
Families Created through Donor and Surrogacy
Professionally-led workshop created by PATRICIA MENDELL, LCSW & JEAN BENWARD, LCSW
A workshop for parents and parents-to-be who are seeking the tools to talk with
children about family origins.
Time 12:30-5:00 pm
Included: Handouts, Babysitting and Refreshments
Place Ansche Chesed Synagague
251 West 100th Street between Broadway and West End New York, NY 10025
(#1 Train to 103rd or #2 or #3 to 96th)
Sara Axel, Saxel95@aol.com
Patricia Mendell, LCSW pmendell@aol.com
Jean Benward, LCSW officejeanbenward@sbcglobal.net
Talking to “the others” in your life
Creating the Family Story
Panel: donor/surrogate parents, and donor children, questions, interaction with participants
THIS WORKSHOP IS FOR PARENTS AND PARENTS-TO-BE who are seeking the
tools to talk with children about family origins. Hear from professionals, parents and children who will bring to life the disclosure process andprovide guidance on how to create meaningful family stories.
Participants will learn how to:
• Develop comfortable, age-appropriate language for the disclosure process
• Identify the different ages and stages children go through in understanding their genetics and family origins
• Answer children’s questions with confidence
• Decide when and how to share with friends and family
$70 Individual / $140 Couple
Childcare Available,$30 one child/$50 two children
Sunday, February 28, 2010
March 2010 Update
Tuesday March 2, 7pm-Judy Kottick's Discussion Group. Who's coming with me to Montclair?Saxel95@aol.com, Judykottick@comcast.net.
Tuesday Mar 9, 7-8:30pm-TPPN. Esilk2@earthlink.net and NLKaufman@yahoo.com.
Thurs Mar 18-LI Resolve, 7-9pm, saxel95@aol.com.
Thurs Mar 18-New England Fertility workshop in Westchester,Guest Speakers Dr Gad Lavy of New England Fertility, Melissa Brisman, Esq, Judy Kottic, LCSW. Mwelch@lifelinecryogenics.com
Tues Mar 23, NYC Womens Midtown Dinner, saxel95@aol.com
Sun Mar 21-The NYC Gathering, Patricia Mendell and Jean Benward, Conversations for Parents, UWS, Pmendell@aol.com, officejeanbenward@sbcglobal.net.
Sun April 18-The NYC Gathering UWS, All-inclusive. saxel95@aol.com
Mon-Apr 26-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner with Nancy Kaufman on Disclosure, saxel95@aol.com.
Mon-May 17-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner in Midtown saxel95@aol.com.
Sat-May 1-The IACCenter with Joni Mantell and Judy Kottick, Adoption and Third Party Parenting workshop, judykottick@comcast.net
Tuesday Mar 9, 7-8:30pm-TPPN. Esilk2@earthlink.net and NLKaufman@yahoo.com.
Thurs Mar 18-LI Resolve, 7-9pm, saxel95@aol.com.
Thurs Mar 18-New England Fertility workshop in Westchester,Guest Speakers Dr Gad Lavy of New England Fertility, Melissa Brisman, Esq, Judy Kottic, LCSW. Mwelch@lifelinecryogenics.com
Tues Mar 23, NYC Womens Midtown Dinner, saxel95@aol.com
Sun Mar 21-The NYC Gathering, Patricia Mendell and Jean Benward, Conversations for Parents, UWS, Pmendell@aol.com, officejeanbenward@sbcglobal.net.
Sun April 18-The NYC Gathering UWS, All-inclusive. saxel95@aol.com
Mon-Apr 26-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner with Nancy Kaufman on Disclosure, saxel95@aol.com.
Mon-May 17-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner in Midtown saxel95@aol.com.
Sat-May 1-The IACCenter with Joni Mantell and Judy Kottick, Adoption and Third Party Parenting workshop, judykottick@comcast.net
March 2010 Update-Workshop Date Change
Tuesday March 2, 7pm-Judy Kottick's Discussion Group.
Tuesday Mar 9, 7-8:30pm-TPPN. Esilk2@earthlink.net and NLKaufman@yahoo.com.
Thurs Mar 18-LI Resolve, 7-9pm, saxel95@aol.com.
Thurs Mar 18-New England Fertility workshop in Westchester,Guest Speakers Dr Gad Lavy of New England Fertility, Melissa Brisman, Esq, Judy Kottic, LCSW. Mwelch@lifelinecryogenics.com
Tues Mar 23, NYC Womens Midtown Dinner, saxel95@aol.com
Sun JUNE 6-The NYC Gathering, Patricia Mendell and Jean Benward, Conversations for Parents, UWS, Pmendell@aol.com, officejeanbenward@sbcglobal.net.
Sun April 18-The NYC Gathering UWS, All-inclusive. saxel95@aol.com
Mon-Apr 26-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner with Nancy Kaufman on Disclosure, saxel95@aol.com.
Mon-May 17-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner in Midtown saxel95@aol.com.
Sat-May 1-The IACCenter with Joni Mantell and Judy Kottick, Adoption and Third Party Parenting workshop, judykottick@comcast.net
Tuesday Mar 9, 7-8:30pm-TPPN. Esilk2@earthlink.net and NLKaufman@yahoo.com.
Thurs Mar 18-LI Resolve, 7-9pm, saxel95@aol.com.
Thurs Mar 18-New England Fertility workshop in Westchester,Guest Speakers Dr Gad Lavy of New England Fertility, Melissa Brisman, Esq, Judy Kottic, LCSW. Mwelch@lifelinecryogenics.com
Tues Mar 23, NYC Womens Midtown Dinner, saxel95@aol.com
Sun JUNE 6-The NYC Gathering, Patricia Mendell and Jean Benward, Conversations for Parents, UWS, Pmendell@aol.com, officejeanbenward@sbcglobal.net.
Sun April 18-The NYC Gathering UWS, All-inclusive. saxel95@aol.com
Mon-Apr 26-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner with Nancy Kaufman on Disclosure, saxel95@aol.com.
Mon-May 17-The NYC Gathering Womens Dinner in Midtown saxel95@aol.com.
Sat-May 1-The IACCenter with Joni Mantell and Judy Kottick, Adoption and Third Party Parenting workshop, judykottick@comcast.net
Saturday, January 30, 2010
Special Resolve Mtg 2-7-10, Disclosure with Donor-conceived teen
Harriett Rovner Ferguson will lead us in a discussion for our Long Island Peer Group on 3rd Party Reproduction and Parenting on disclosure. The meeting will be held in Stonybrook Long Island at the Office of Reproductive Specialists of NY, Dr. San Romano, 12:30-2pm.
Space is limited, DE-conceived Teen Maddie will be attending to talk to us about her experience and is notably very comfortable in speaking to adult groups like us.
Please contact saxel95@aol.com for more info.
Space is limited, DE-conceived Teen Maddie will be attending to talk to us about her experience and is notably very comfortable in speaking to adult groups like us.
Please contact saxel95@aol.com for more info.
Monday, January 25, 2010
What is the NYC Gathering 1.25.10
The NYC Gathering is the name I gave the meetings I was holding, starting in 2002, when I couldnt find a support group to fit my needs and started my own. Instead of putting "DE" in the subject line I found out that people preferred not to have that info so easily seen on their email and the name stuck.
Here is how I define it today and what you will find listed on this Blogspot/Webpage.
The NYC Gathering Womens Dinners in Midtown-someone just asked me why dont we include men. And what do we do at a womens dinner. We cover whatever anyone wants, whatever point they are at in their journey. Unless there is a specific topic listed, almost every group I run is for people on the spectrum of third-party familiy-building, from considering it, trying to conceive, to parenting. We open the group up on occasion to professionals to make presentations, ie Lisa Schuman speaking on Adoption vs DE, or to learn and offer their support and expertise, ie Elizabeth Silk and others.
As for the Women Only part-We can try a mixed dinner. Please feel free to contact me to discuss it.
The NYC Gathering All-inclusive is for anyone on the spectrum as noted above, and anyone you want to bring that is interested in the process for themselves, to support you, as a friend or family member and kids. The kids usually get involved in their own stuff, playing or whatever, and the grown-ups hang-out. For me this is about friendship, creating community, new connections, support and something for our kids, so they will be able to know each other and be there for each other too. A new addition to the NYC Gathering is the professionally-led workshop. I will also be putting together a new list of volunteers who have offered to do individual peer-support for anyone new who would like to talk to another person about their experience.
Here is how I define it today and what you will find listed on this Blogspot/Webpage.
The NYC Gathering Womens Dinners in Midtown-someone just asked me why dont we include men. And what do we do at a womens dinner. We cover whatever anyone wants, whatever point they are at in their journey. Unless there is a specific topic listed, almost every group I run is for people on the spectrum of third-party familiy-building, from considering it, trying to conceive, to parenting. We open the group up on occasion to professionals to make presentations, ie Lisa Schuman speaking on Adoption vs DE, or to learn and offer their support and expertise, ie Elizabeth Silk and others.
As for the Women Only part-We can try a mixed dinner. Please feel free to contact me to discuss it.
The NYC Gathering All-inclusive is for anyone on the spectrum as noted above, and anyone you want to bring that is interested in the process for themselves, to support you, as a friend or family member and kids. The kids usually get involved in their own stuff, playing or whatever, and the grown-ups hang-out. For me this is about friendship, creating community, new connections, support and something for our kids, so they will be able to know each other and be there for each other too. A new addition to the NYC Gathering is the professionally-led workshop. I will also be putting together a new list of volunteers who have offered to do individual peer-support for anyone new who would like to talk to another person about their experience.
Sunday, January 24, 2010
NYC Update 1.24.10
Please see updates to Spring Schedule and New Events added to December 16, 2009 post, please look for the following in BLUE:
NYC Womens Dinners-special event April 26th on Disclosure with Nancy Kaufman.
Resolve LI meeting for May date changed and an additional event on Feb 7 on Disclosure Led by Harriet Rovner Ferguson.
Judy Kottick's Professionally-led support group and links to the YOUTUBE series.
NYC All-inclusive Gatherings-Feb 21 and April 11, new venue on the UWS, $5 per family to cover the rental of the playspace, kick in another $5 for PVED.org if you can.
We had a great time on January 14th at dinner with Diane Ehrensaft, author of Mommies, Daddies, Donors & Surrogates. She was as great to be with in person as she is in her book, helping us to sort out the questions and the answers that lie before us as a diverse group of parents and parents-to-be. We welcomed a few newbies, saw friends from various dinners and support boards.
Diane was as gracious, generous, and comforting as you would imagine her to be. We raised $180 in her honor for PVED.org.
From Lori, mom via donor sister...a few take aways from the dinner:
1) There are SO many ways to build a family and in the end, the result is a child...the same result when the traditional way works.
2) I really appreciated all Diane's insight on the age break-downs on telling. We are at that age now, and it gave me some good pointers.
3) It doesn't matter if your child looks like you or not, they are their own unique individual.
My own take-aways: The people that intended to have the child are the parents, period and 7 yrs old is a 'magical' age for disclosure.
This weekend I got to talk to my kids about not knowing whether they will have big feet like me (size 10, not likely) Joey asked, but thats how it started, or average (assuming) like our donor, whom Joey assumes is dead .She thinks everyone she never met is dead and I have nothing to do with that-she's just been obsessed with death again foir the last 6 months. I explained that I've never seen shoe size on a donor profile and that we may never know, and no, she's probably not dead since she donated for us at 27 yo and she'd be 33 now.
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